May 21, 2012, 04:48:23 PM

Author Topic: License plates  (Read 9948 times)

The Lyin King

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Re: License plates
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2009, 06:56:41 PM »
I feel your pain.  It's not legal where I live to ride public highways and we have no licensing capability, yet law enforcement looks the other way in the majority of cases as long as you have a bail of hay, fence stretching tools, chain saw or other farming equipment in your rig.  They understand it's how we get stuff done on and around our properties.

The issue with roads utilization is far reaching and if you want to make a difference you need to take your Public Servants in hand and actually get them out where you do your work.  You'd also be wise to start a local "Friends of" Coalition and lobby your Local and State Officials.

In the end, I am sorry to say . . . your will not only lose your right to ride the streets, but if you guys don't get with it, your off-road areas as well.

Since I don't reside there I have no idea which issue carries more weight with you folks but for me, I'd compromise on some highway access if at all possible and concentrate on off-highway issues since that access is on the chopping block just as soon as they get you off the highways due to mismanagement of OHV Funding and the National fiscal crisis in general.

Just my $.02 . . . Bob


 


Grumpy 1

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Re: License plates
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2009, 09:19:32 PM »
Why on Gods earth would we give up what we currently have and end up like California.  No Thanks!

Grumpy 1

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Re: License plates
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2009, 09:28:56 PM »
I feel your pain.  It's not legal where I live to ride public highways and we have no licensing capability, yet law enforcement looks the other way in the majority of cases as long as you have a bail of hay, fence stretching tools, chain saw or other farming equipment in your rig.  They understand it's how we get stuff done on and around our properties.

The issue with roads utilization is far reaching and if you want to make a difference you need to take your Public Servants in hand and actually get them out where you do your work.  You'd also be wise to start a local "Friends of" Coalition and lobby your Local and State Officials.

In the end, I am sorry to say . . . your will not only lose your right to ride the streets, but if you guys don't get with it, your off-road areas as well.

Since I don't reside there I have no idea which issue carries more weight with you folks but for me, I'd compromise on some highway access if at all possible and concentrate on off-highway issues since that access is on the chopping block just as soon as they get you off the highways due to mismanagement of OHV Funding and the National fiscal crisis in general.

Just my $.02 . . . Bob
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Thumper700

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Re: License plates
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2009, 09:43:05 PM »
Grumpy's spot on.  Why should we give up anything?  What is it hurting riding on the roads?  Give us reasons why we shouldn't ride on the areas that we are losing our rights to.  All the tax money we shell out should guarantee our right to ride where we already ride, well into the future.
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Grumpy 1

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Re: License plates
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2009, 05:44:16 AM »
Stop and figure it out.  If they want funding why not just introduce a bill to allow ATV/UTV's to purchase permits similair to boats and snowmobiles.  This permits could be used for state wide trails or riding areas and guess what we would not lose a thing we might even gain some trails and areas.  I'm not interested in giving up my rights and am willing to pay for a permit if it will help ATV-ers.
For those of you who are so quick to castigate and dismiss the BlueRibbon Coalition for their efforts on your behalf I submit the following.

The short story is that this whole issue is about trying to develop a funding mechanism for trails in SD.  In the process of doing that, proponents of the funding for trails discovered very quickly there were a lot of factions and people in HIGH places in the State who want the license plates and ALL ability to ride ATVs and UTVs on roads taken away completely.

In order to develop the necessary support to get a funding mechanism in place, and also to salvage some long term capability to ride on roads between trails and other places, the BRC has developed a compromise that can still allow for that to happen, albeit not on highways.  Even at that, the Legislation various groups want to introduce allows for County, City or other Local Government to override and allow for riding on hardened surface roads under their jurisdiction.

In fact, based on those who the BRC has spoken with in the State, the license plates are going to eventually go away because the State has way too much exposure legally and financially.  This is the only State in the Union with a loophole in the motorcycle laws that allows for licensing ATVs and UTVs to drive on highways.

It is what it is folks, beat on your Public Servants and not the BRC!


bottlerocket

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Re: License plates
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2009, 07:11:41 AM »
I am with grumpy and Thumper on this.  I live in a bigger city and use my wheeler to get around town and also plow snow with it.  If they take that right away from us then I would have to load my wheeler up on my trailer and use my truck that get 1/2 of wheeler gets.  I also use it to ride to the farm which is 35 miles out of town to use it out there.  If the law is changed then I would have to load it then bring it to the farm.  Not all of us just can throw a bail of hay on and go ride.  You do that where I live and you will get picked up.  Don't get me wrong I love riding trails.  But we don't have them to ride in Eastern SD.  So what they think is best for Western SD is not good for the whole state!
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Grumpy 1

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Re: License plates
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2009, 07:39:57 AM »
Stop and figure it out.  If they want funding why not just introduce a bill to allow ATV/UTV's to purchase permits similair to boats and snowmobiles.  This permits could be used for state wide trails or riding areas and guess what we would not lose a thing we might even gain some trails and areas.  I'm not interested in giving up my rights and am willing to pay for a permit if it will help ATV-ers.
I find these comments by Lyin King very interesting.  I'm really curious how he knows so much about what has been happening in SD, unless someone who lives in say Rapid City and sends info for this guy to put in the forum.  Please read what I am commenting to as these are almost word for word that executive sec of the BRC used at the last ORA meeting in Rapid City.
For those of you who are so quick to castigate and dismiss the BlueRibbon Coalition for their efforts on your behalf I submit the following.

The short story is that this whole issue is about trying to develop a funding mechanism for trails in SD.  In the process of doing that, proponents of the funding for trails discovered very quickly there were a lot of factions and people in HIGH places in the State who want the license plates and ALL ability to ride ATVs and UTVs on roads taken away completely.

In order to develop the necessary support to get a funding mechanism in place, and also to salvage some long term capability to ride on roads between trails and other places, the BRC has developed a compromise that can still allow for that to happen, albeit not on highways.  Even at that, the Legislation various groups want to introduce allows for County, City or other Local Government to override and allow for riding on hardened surface roads under their jurisdiction.

In fact, based on those who the BRC has spoken with in the State, the license plates are going to eventually go away because the State has way too much exposure legally and financially.  This is the only State in the Union with a loophole in the motorcycle laws that allows for licensing ATVs and UTVs to drive on highways.

It is what it is folks, beat on your Public Servants and not the BRC!


The Lyin King

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Re: License plates
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2009, 11:19:28 AM »
I find these comments by Lyin King very interesting.  I'm really curious how he knows so much about what has been happening in SD, unless someone who lives in say Rapid City and sends info for this guy to put in the forum.  Please read what I am commenting to as these are almost word for word that executive sec of the BRC used at the last ORA meeting in Rapid City.

I understand all the frustrations expressed here as well as the reasoning and thought process behind your comments.  Who in their right mind would voluntarily give up any rights they currently have and enjoy?

When I introduced myself after joining this forum I told all of you who I am and what I am about.  I also told you I belong to the BRC and a number of other National and State Organizations. I was asked to analyze and provide my thoughts on this issue by a member of another forum who lives in a rural area of SD and not the bigger towns like Rapid City, Sioux Falls etc.  He was wondering if all the discussion here had any merit from my point of view so I decided to post my findings here for him since I thought they may have been helpful to some of you too.

I do my research before entering discussions, if you look around you will find me on over a dozen forums.  I use the Internet to do this research and of course I run across all sort of publicly available documents including the one Grumpy mentioned.  Do I believe in the BRC and what they do for the OHV Community Nationally, damn right I do!  Did I come here to defend them?  Hell no, they can defend OHV folks nationally and themselves and don’t need me to do it for them.

However, the fact is that IMHO you are going to lose this right.  Why?  Because your Public Servants, their Legal Beagles at the State level who are worried about mitigating risk, most LEOs across the board, Insurance Companies, the Department of Transportation, folks in State Government dealing with Gas Tax and licensing revenues, extremist groups, and worst of all your fellow statesmen are against ATVs on the streets.

It is only by virtue of a screw up in the current motorcycle laws in your State that you are enjoying this privilege to begin with.

Against all the Local opposition and with a screwed up economy to boot who do you think is going to prevail, the OHV Community or the Local folks who are against you riding ATVs on the street?

Then, shortly thereafter the Black Hills National Forest trail system will become a worthless destination since any thing worth a crap will be closed.  Given that your State has no funding system to develop new or maintain established public riding areas and trails there will be no further need for your rigs except for work on your own private property.  This may leave some of you with expensive lawn ornaments.

We here in California have an OHV funding generation system, it was worth $100 Million dollars less than six months ago before our Governator raided 90% of it to balance his screwed up budget.  So believe me, we here understand closures.  This is the third raid in less than two decades; none of it has been repaid as promised.

If you folks are not careful and don’t get ahead of the curve on OHV use in general in your State, not only will you likely lose most if not all of your street riding privileges but all your meaningful off-highway access too. 

So . . . Merry Christmas, welcome to the reality of Politics. 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 11:59:08 AM by The Lyin King »

Thumper700

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Re: License plates
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2009, 12:16:54 PM »
You make it sound as if we should just give up, we're going to lose it anyway.  How does one get ahead of the "curve", when there's all those forces against us?  Are ATV's in California just lawn ornaments?  If not, how have you managed to save your rights?  And don't say "state budget" because we can't even get potholes fixed, let alone maintain riding trails.  We already pay to license our ATV's to ride them on the street, does SD not need our money?  And you mention the bad economy.  Hello?  License fees are tax money for the state!  What can they not understand about that?
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Re: License plates
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2009, 12:16:54 PM »

bottlerocket

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Re: License plates
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2009, 01:22:05 PM »
The other thing is this is a farming state, NOT A BEACH STATE.  We don't have the sand to ride on.  Or enough State parks that are rideable.  Don't you think that the state would rather have the income off of everything like thumper said.  That is why people like you should just stay where your at and do your own thing there.  We in SD love what we have, even though it is not much.


When you actually look at the whole picture Lying King maybe you should try and enjoy some freedom without anyone telling you that you can't.

And instead of just posting quotes why don't you actually post a comment to some of the questions that have been asked.  Quit quoting and talk!
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The Lyin King

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Re: License plates
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2009, 02:05:43 PM »
You make it sound as if we should just give up, we're going to lose it anyway.  How does one get ahead of the "curve", when there's all those forces against us?  Are ATV's in California just lawn ornaments?  If not, how have you managed to save your rights?  And don't say "state budget" because we can't even get potholes fixed, let alone maintain riding trails.  We already pay to license our ATV's to ride them on the street, does SD not need our money?  And you mention the bad economy.  Hello?  License fees are tax money for the state!  What can they not understand about that?

IHMO . . . you folks need to decide what your priorities are and concentrate on them.  The group participating in this discussion seems more interested in defending your current on-highway rights so you are in an untested arena.  You need to lobby your Public Servants in every way conceivable to that end if you are to have a chance of "getting ahead of the curve" at this juncture on this issue.  With all of the forces against you it is inconceivable to me that you will get everything you are asking for, that’s just one man’s opinion.  Don’t give up, but step up BIG time!!! 

The situation you face there is very unique in that all of the National Groups who exist today to fight for OHV Recreation do so for OHVs used off-highway.   If you compare your rights to those of folks in other States you'll easily see that there is National consensus among States (with a few exceptions) that vehicles which are sold with OHV designations do not belong on public highways, there is overwhelming precedence and good reasoning for this, at least in the minds of the Politicians who create our laws and others.

No, ATVs and OHVs in general are not yet lawn ornaments in California but just out my back door within 15 minutes of my acreage lies the Stanislaus National Forest which I ride my Rhino on County Roads to access.  We just lost 600 plus miles of access to roads we once used to get places in the forest system when they changed them to “street legal” only, not to mention hundreds of miles of trails which had width restriction placed on them or were closed entirely.  I wrote so many letters and attended numerous local meetings, so much so that I received three copies of the notification with CDs earlier this week when the final decision was announced.

We are in the same shape with pot holes on Pubic Roads and the termination of or drastic reduction in OHV trail maintenance with closures as their final easy solution.  IMHO, your Public Servants think that exposure to the risks presented offset income from the fees collected licensing your rigs for street use; otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to reverse same. 



toodeep

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Re: License plates
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2009, 02:16:50 PM »
I wanted to hear a response of what the other side was thinking so I asked Bob for his opinion beings the BRC was brought up. He did some emailing and is reporting what he has found out. If there was plentiful amounts of state trails through out the state that thinking might be ok but Pierre and the Hills are the only trails I know of that is state. If they are having problems out in the hills with ATV's on the highway I think it should be up to the county to ban them on the highways and that way the rest of the state will not be affected by it. I don't see why they are pushing it in the Hills though. Most of the time the traveling riders rent a cabin and ride a couple miles of highway to get to the trails and to the convenience store for supplies. If anything they should sell weekly permits for out of state or in state riders that are not licensed to allow them on the roads to access the trails (as long as they meet the requirements) and then you still would have to buy the weekly trail pass. That would generate more $$ than the way they are trying to do it and just sell trail passes annually (I personally probably will not buy an annual pass to ride 1 weekend a year. If it's money they want for the trails there is better ways to do it.

Read the post carefully, they are not all quotes just messed up replies with the [/quote] in the wrong place.

The Lyin King

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Re: License plates
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2009, 02:39:42 PM »
The other thing is this is a farming state, NOT A BEACH STATE.  We don't have the sand to ride on.  Or enough State parks that are rideable.  Don't you think that the state would rather have the income off of everything like thumper said.  That is why people like you should just stay where your at and do your own thing there.  We in SD love what we have, even though it is not much.


When you actually look at the whole picture Lying King maybe you should try and enjoy some freedom without anyone telling you that you can't.

And instead of just posting quotes why don't you actually post a comment to some of the questions that have been asked.  Quit quoting and talk!


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See any sand?  I hate sand, having spent six years serving our Country in the Navy and enjoy all of the freedoms I served to protect.

We are predominately a farming, ranching, dairy and lumber State, very little of which is actually comprised of sand.  My entire community is dominated by ranching.  Folks still ride their horses to the Post Office in town and I experience many of the same issues you folks do.

I quote when appropriate and if you bothered to research what I've posted you'd find there are no quotes contained in any of them.  I have posted more of my personal thoughts and research findings than all of the whining and baseless babble contained in the posts I've responded to, thank you.

The Lyin King

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Re: License plates
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2009, 03:07:45 PM »
Ok, here's the last of many letters I have written in defense of your right to ride and it was dated 5/14/2009.

Dear Black Hills National Forest Planners,

My family and friends are avid OHV enthusiasts and though we reside in California my family visits relatives in South Dakota often.  During our visits we like to get out in nature spending time together there on the many scenic trails.  We generally travel to our chosen destination via a four wheel drive vehicle as it allows us to get away from paved roads and into areas we could not otherwise reach.  Upon arrival at our final destination we spend our time camping, hiking, fishing, hunting, and traveling the trails in the vicinity with our Jeep and other OHVs taking in the beautiful scenery that our public lands afford us.

We strongly oppose the proposed alternatives D and E. As forest visitors who depend on motorized vehicles for access and recreation, these two alternatives are completely unacceptable.

It appears as though existing routes we OHV users helped identify for addition to the travel system are not being given consideration for inclusion since some of them have been determined to be parallel or duplicate routes. Many duplicate routes serve a purpose to help reduce congestion on the remaining trails. When duplicate routes have a different character such as an ATV trail and single track, please consider keeping both routes open.

We OHV users support more trail mileage in the Hell Canyon Ranger District. OHV users prefer the trail experience to the road experience and with very few trails designated in the Southern Hills, the plan is too dependent on mixed-use roads for OHV opportunity. This is not very family oriented because, even managed as mixed-use, you still need a valid operator license to travel on the road; this minimizes youth opportunities.

Also, there are minimal meaningful connections of the trail system to gateway communities such as Deadwood-Lead, Sturgis, Hill City, and even Spearfish.  For a successful trail system, both community and enthusiast need to have access to the community services such as fuel, food and lodging.

The off-highway vehicle community generally supports the "travel limited to designated roads, trails and areas" paradigm. The OHV community also supports thorough environmental review and analysis in route designation process, as well as ongoing monitoring and maintenance of the OHV infrastructure. Indeed, we have taxed ourselves via OHV registration stickers in order to provide funds to the agency so it may accomplish these tasks.

What the OHV community does not support is being presented with a "range" of management alternatives where many or all of the alternatives represent a significant reduction in OHV opportunity. The intent of the Travel Management Rule is "revising regulations regarding travel management on National Forest System and BLM lands to clarify policy related to motor vehicle use, including the use of off-highway vehicles." It is not intended to be a means to eliminate or even drastically reduce motorized recreation on National Forests and BLM lands.

In closing, of the Alternatives presented we strongly encourage the agency to adopt Alternative C.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Bob XXXX
[the rest of my personal info went here]


Please understand that I practice what I preach but work OHV issues and not on-highway issues.

How many of you bothered to write letters to the Forest Planners in your own State???






stumper

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Re: License plates
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2009, 03:38:03 PM »
Here in South Dakota we dont own Off Highway Vehicles. We own ATV's ALL TERRAIN VEHICLES. If anyone thinks rolling over and letting them take away my ability to ride my ATV to work on a hard surface road is going to help keep trails open THEY ARE NUTS!!!! Give them an inch and they will take MILES. You talk of alll this opposition. SHOW ME LINKS, Living here the has been no talk of this in the media or anywhere else other than from some idiot who claims to be on our side flapping about it in the RC paper. Show me where all these so called "Public Servants " are talking about this.

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